Iris, you are correct, the overbuilding in Laguna West has become absolutely gross. In nearly 30 years I have never seen so much marginal product being constructed. Centers with great street frontage or with a strong anchor to draw traffic off the street will always do well, even in the face of overbuilding, in time. Convenience centers built midblock on secondary or minor streets, and convenience centers built without street frontage and without an anchor to draw them in will never do well, even in a robust market which we are no longer enjoying. In Elk Grove, it's very simple; either you are fronting on Laguna Blvd or Elk Grove Blvd or you're not in the prime marketplace.
Now, the bank is knocking at the doors of at least two of these centers. One has cut rents below 2002 levels and they still can't lease space; even the start ups know they can't make any money there, BUT we still get hit with these rents for comparison purposes. We are prepared to ride out the glut for as long as it takes, and I am estimating two more years of challenging leasing. If our friends at Stonelake Landing can fill up in 6-8 months, then they have my respect.
Everyone wants to point fingers; who is to blame? Many people would look toward the city, and that's not the place to lay blame. Look to the developers. It is our responsibility to survey the market and make responsible decisions. The zoning allows for either office or retail, and as office is dead most chose retail which made sense when there was a space shortage in 2004-5; that's how long it takes to process an app. Almost every project we see under construction or finishing up was done by a developer new to retail. This business is both science and art, and there is no room for error. If you're a block off the main intersection or blocked by other buildings, you often have little to offer.
What is even more sad is that these buildings are built for a fifty year life. They will remain long after most people have moved from the area. At some point they will lease, but to whom is the question.
Depressing, but probably factual. I just came across some of these places accidentally. If a business was actual open in any of these places, they would have to do some serious marketing and advertising to let people know they were there. You wouldn't want them to just happen to drive by. Unless, of course, you had a SERIOUS draw that would make people search you out. Like, well, how about Fresh Choice (LOL), because I know Kinder would be there every day. And when she wasn't eating there, she would be on the corner with her little green lettuce leaf sign pointing towards the establishment so that everyone would know it was there and it wouldn't fold!!!!
OK, no thumbs downl. I'm just teasing here.
Me - I'd want outlets. Then I'd be there on the corner with my big red arrow sign!
Speaking of which, anyone see the person on Laguna Boulevard sitting in the Lazy Boy chair advertising Lazy Boy? I think it's a crack up. I'd take that job.
I would disagree with the statement that stripmalls (or whatever you want to call them) do okay if they are on E.G. or Laguna Blvd. From the looks of things, down E.G. Blvd... it looks cheap and businesses consistently fail. You can start at the center that has Planet Beach and continue down to I-5 - the strip mall where Table 260 and Pete's is looks also has had its share of problems and the design is cheap looking and the tenants nothing to brag about. There is nothing high end about them.
Only 9 posts and you're posting like that? hummmmm, Not really a good idea. And by the way, the owner of the strip mall that Pete's and Table 260 are in, happens to be a very highly respected member of EGO and a friend to quite a few of us here.
"the strip mall where Table 260 and Pete's is looks also has had its share of problems and the design is cheap looking and the tenants nothing to brag about. There is nothing high end about them."
"the tenants nothing to brag about" is a very condescending way of addressing our neighbors who are trying to make a living doing what they LOVE and serving the community. I think they are absolutely something to brag about since they've put their lives (and probably their extended families lives) on the line in order to build their dream business. They're putting their heart and soul out there and you're going to bash them like that? Have fun eating at Chili's or whatever chain you find yourself "bragging" about.
"the design is cheap looking" is also a very condescending statement and in case you didn't know, LocalCenters was forthcoming to the local community throughout the planning process of both of those centers. He reached out to all of us and asked for our input in both design and tenants. He responded and gave us everything he could that we had asked for.
Small businesses in Elk Grove tend to fail because of the high expenses it takes to open in this city as well as poor operations and location. You can see this argued in several other threads. Businesses do not fail because they are in strip malls. Besides, if strip malls perform so poorly, why are there dozens of them in Elk Grove as well as other cities?
Thanks for posting your opinions but I think you could have worded them in a much more courteous manner.
Well, those are nice comments and thanks, but $.02 thank you especially; you made my day! New to the area and you seem to know much of what we own on EG Blvd.; I'm flattered you took your time to investigate. More importantly, you might not like our buildings but you know where they are and you knowthe tenants and THAT is our goal!
I'll take that comment any day of the week over:
Iris, speaking of some other closeby centers........... "I just came across some of these places accidentally. If a business
was actually open in any of these places, they would have to do some
serious marketing and advertising to let people know they were there. "
Thank you LC. I had no idea that the malls I mentioned were managed or owned (not sure what is correct) by the same person or business. I do not know who LC is nor did I do any research on the malls I mentioned to find out if they were owned by the same business - I was merely making an observation/opinion that I believe I am entitled to make. Obviously not everyone will agree with statements made on these types of "online" comments but hopefully feedback (good or bad) is taken into consideration. I apologize if anyone was offended by my comments because that was not my intent. My intent was to share my feelings. I have never eaten at a Chilis but have been to Pete's and Table 260 both which I did not care for. I do enjoy dining at Kintaro, Todo Unpoco, Pasta Pomodoro, Strings, Palermo, and Thai Basil, if anyone is interested. I believe my comments were courteous and a good idea to provide input regarding the subject at hand.
LC, yesterday I noticed at least one palm tree in the mall near I-5 (Pete's) which appears not to be doing so well. Is there a plan to replace it or is it on its way back to healthy?
funny - now he's worried about the tree - i like the businesses there and the owners are nice - it is not "high end" stuff, but elk grove is not full of "high end" people........now the design, it is "different", and i don't know why but for some reason it reminds me of the flinstones.......can't wait for the samari japanese food place thingie - and if you don't like table 260 ribs.........then there is just something plain wrong with you!
What if there is no...*gasp*....subterfuge happening here and this person is just expressing there opinion??? Aren't we being kind of harsh here?? Aren't we allowed to have opinions without getting jumped/piled on?
And what if this opinion were expressed about strip malls not owned by LocalCenters? Would the reaction to twocents post be this brutal? I tend to doubt it.
Doesn't seem quite right to me.
Twocents, if you are on the up and up and not some of LC's competition, I apologize for the reception you have received here.
Let's rephrase in what I would have considered a more friendly post, getting the same message across:
"I would disagree with the statement that stripmalls (or whatever you want to call them) do okay if they are on E.G. or Laguna Blvd. From the looks of things, down E.G. Blvd... it looks cheap and businesses consistently fail. You can start at the center that has Planet Beach and continue down to I-5 - the strip mall where Table 260 and Pete's is looks also has had its share of problems and the design is cheap looking and the tenants nothing to brag about. There is nothing high end about them."
"I would disagree with the statement that stripmalls (or whatever you want to call them) do okay if they are on E.G. or Laguna Blvd. From the looks of things, down E.G. Blvd...the buildings don't look very attractive and the businesses consistently fail. You can start at the center that has Planet Beach and continue down to I-5 - the strip mall where Table 260 and Pete's is looks also has had its share of problems and the design is not appealing to me at all and I don't care for their food. There is nothing about them that attracts me."
The original post came across a little negative and snooty to me. I apologize for jumping the gun but at the time I read the post, I felt it as somewhat of an attack on those businesses and LC by using critical phrases such as "cheap" and "nothing to brag about" with a condescending "nothing high end about them" thrown in for good measure.
Again, I apologize to you twocents for jumping so hastily. You do have the right to post your opinion, no matter what or who it may be about. I just thought you could've phrased it a little bit more "politically correct". Maybe it was just a bad day at work still working on my psyche.
Went to Soul Image salon on Thursday and my son (7 yrs) got an awesome haircut for only $10. The owner was super nice and I hope she gets lots of business. She took lots of time getting his hair just the way he likes it. After that we stopped by Play N Trade where they were equally nice. So now we're 2 for 2 in that plaza. We're trying Nick and Willies Pizza tonight. Just thought I'd share some positive experiences.
Hey JMyles....any update on the tenant situation at StoneLake landing? How about a Costco or something similar to the area?
Looking for good examples to fill the place up? Take a drive to Rocklin and check out all the new construction. It seems that they have no problem attracting exciting tenants. Yes, they do have vacancies as well, but they seem to be pretty successful in getting anchor/big name tenants to help draw business to their centers.
What about a larger merchant like Marshalls? And as for the Noah's Bagels - why Noahs? There are other bagel shops out there....C'mon Elk Grove, let's expand out horizons.
jmyles - with respect to a good coffee shop with a relaxing atmosphere, visit the naked lounge downtown (15th & Q), tupelos (56th & H), the oldsoul coffee shope (17th & L) - all three are either owned by the same owner or a former owner. They are quaint, inviting, hip, and serve great coffee! We would be so fortunate to have them join our community. there is an article in today's Bee about OldSoul. I would also like to see a Golden 1 branch or kiosk. A bakery like the new Cafe Isilees (I think i butchered the name) but it's just past Target on Bruceville would be great. Oh, and how about a donut place.... good old fashioned donuts we can stop and pick up on our way to work for the whole office.
Will you please post an update with the current list of tenants and a list of any future tenants you have lined up for this center to date?
I think the center is very whimsical in design and like it, but find it a tad bit frustrating that I can't see all of the businesses that are there without driving into the center - but that's my issue...not yours ;-). I drove in there a few times, but it was too soon at that point. After reading this thread I'm anxious to see what's there now and plan to pay it a visit again soon!
I, too, would love to see an Irish type pub! Yummm!
Have you checked into Red Mango Yogurt? They are an up and coming yogurt shop/franchise.
Is Vine and Spirits already open?
Sorry if you already have a yogurt shop and V&S is opened and I missed it in this thread!
Thanks in advance for any update you might provide!
I drove through this morning after reading the Stonelake Landing article on the front page of the Bee. Signs posted inside empty buildings reflect- Cool Hand Lukes (Steakhouse) Huckleberry's breakfast and lunch restaurant. (They are both a franchise and have a website). Pisa pizza, Stonelake wine and spirts, upscale ladies clothing store, Cartoon City, and Stonelake buffet.
Read the article in the Bee as it appears a couple of potential leases have been cancelled due to the economy.
Crepe Restaurant New Christian Book Store besides The Bible House near Target
Greek Restaurant Red Lobster, Bakers Square, Hungry Hunter, Wienerschnitzel, Dairy Queen, Arby's, Women Petite Only Shop, Women's & Men's Name Brand Comport & Dress Shoe Shop, Old Fashion Ice Cream Soda Fountain Drug Store would be great.
No Mexican, Japanese, Chinese, Pizza parlors Resaurants, Starbucks we have enough
It would really be nice to have a grocery store around the Elk Grove Blvd/I-5 exit or the Laguna Blvd./I-5 Exit. It would be very convenient for the communters driving home from I-5. Our closest option is Frankling Blvd. on each of those streets...although not far, it is a hassle to do all the backtracking just for a gallon of milk or ingredients for the evening's meal. How abuot a nice grocery store in Stonelake or Laguna?
There is construction going on at the space nextdoor to Carl's Jr.. By looking at the posters taped on the windows I think and hoping that we are getting a bicycle shop there. If it is so, then I will hold off on all my bike parts and supplies purchases until this place opens up for business. .. oh Yea.....
I took your advice and checked into La Bella Learning Center. They have another center in Fair Oaks, I was told that they no longer use the Italian educational system (Regio) but have changed to curriculum based. I checked into their staff turn over rate also. Ever since they changed their curriculum base, they have lost several staff members.
Are they still going to open? In May you stated they were opening in a week?
Glad to see the community excited about our new shopping center. Currently please dont forget to come to our few stores that are open since your business is highly appreciated.
Businesses coming soon includes
stonelake buffet international casino style buffet,
cool hand lukes restaurant and saloon, you can find the franchise on the web the food looks yummy!
huckleberrys for breakfast and lunch, southern cajun style foods.
deli, wine and spirits
nail shop should be open by next week
La Bella will be open towards end of next year :(
starbucks with drive thru
couture clothing shop one of a kind items
cartoon city is an anime shop trying to open before christmas
huge bike shop....sorry that is all I can remember right now!
Of course you cant forget us that are open Play N Trade Video Games where you can get the best deals guaranteed on videogames, you can buy sell and trade in all video games all the way back to original nintendo and Scrap n Stamp, Soul Image, Quiznos, and Nick N Willies Pizza. We are very happy to see all of our community stop into our establishents and allow us to serve them. We thank you for your patronage and look forward to serving you in the future.
Maybe one day Elk Grove will get their act together. I was up in Roseville/Rocklin late last week and was floored by their local economy...still booming - Commercial outlets are being built and tenants are filling them...at least at a better rate than of that here in Elk Grove.
What the heck is going on? When will we see more action in these neighborhoods? I know the economy is slow right now, but for pete's sake....let's get some of these establishments up and going so that the community can jumpstart this thing!
I'm so disappointed with the EG Chamber/leadership. We're in BIG trouble here in EG and if we don't do something to attract businesses, the city will go further down the tubes. At this point, there's nothing special about Elk Grove and I see myself more and more shopping/dining/buying in other communities that have better variety.
Step it up Elk Grove or soon we'll all be out of here for much greener pastures.
The problem EG has is there are very few corporate offices/businesses located in Elk Grove. That's why so many food establishments are struggling to make it here. Everyone leaves EG during the day, spends their dollars elsewhere during their lunch hours or on the ride home. Once they get to EG, most go straight home.
We need more big businesses to help the retail establisment make a profit. That's why Roseville area is doing better than we are.
Office rents are pretty high in Elk Grove compared to older parts of this region because Elk Grove has very new buildings which reflect recent and higher building costs.
My thoughts are that a company would either have to relocate into the area and bring all their employees from out of town or start up here in Elk Grove.
Once you have a company running in Sac or other parts of the north area, it would be hard to move to Elk Grove because it is on the far southeast end of the Metro area. Many if not all of your employees could already be commuting in from outer parts of Sac and the suburbs in Folsom, El Dorado, Roseville / Rocklin. It would be business suicide to move further away from your employees' homes in the day of $4 per gallon gasoline.
They just built way too many homes in a market that could not provide a sufficient amount of in town jobs.
A typical suburb would have jobs for 25 to 40% of their working age population.
Building houses for a population of 50,000 - 60,000 would have been more realistic from a common sense standpoint. There is no way that you could attract jobs for 136,000. They can't even do that in the Silicon Valley.
We have found ourselves driving up to Rocklin to shop for clothing etc. it's a vibrant area with tons of new restaurants and stores.
On another point, has anyone been to the el dorado hills shopping center over by the Mercedes dealership. It is absolutely beautiful, buildings look like individual stores, a movie theater etc. Someone took time in designing this area and it shows. Actually, there is a section of downtown Walnut Creek where they have done the same thing and it too is booming. Maybe our city planners need to take some road trips to see what's going on that is being done correctly before they move forward with any other new construction plans.
I can verify the year of free rent. i think they will also do the year of free rent with a 3 year lease but i'm not sure. the number on the leasing signs at stonelake landing say 916 990 5050 if you are interested. they love those family oriented places.
I stopped by Cartoon City and was surprised there was no comic books of any sort. There were lots of cartoon themed stuff like Disney, and Hello Kitty accessories. There were stamps, backpacks, lunch boxes, pens, erasers and more - good school stuff for kids.
I hope this place stays around for a long time as I really enjoy everything there. It's kind of like a Sanrio type store, but not exactly.
The owners are friendly too.
They are having 20% off everything right now.
Hope others chime in on what they think of Cartoon City, maybe an individual thread? ^_^